LeicesterExile wrote:
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I agree about the merits of the 4 day game but would prefer a 2 division of 9 teams playing home and away. However, the one day game is here to stay and will always draw the bigger crowd. The T20 has proved its popularity and should be the white ball game of choice. The trouble is the ECB have tried to cram in too many formats and keep trying to reinvent it (the Hundread being the latest with city teams). If the 18 counties played just CC and T20 both in a 2 division league structure with a T20 Finals day to end the one day season a simple fixture list would tell people when to expect games.
That makes a lot of sense. 16 CC games 16 T20 and a knockout in the 50 overs. T20 Fridays with some local variance (Thurs in London) and maybe a fortnight mid-season dedicated to it.

My proposal is just to strip away the divisions altogether go back to a time when we last used to lose home Ashes series with some regularity in the mid 1990's and where county cricket was very strong indeed. The 2 divisions came in partly to try to arrest this abysmal record in home Ashes. But if what were hearing now is it doesn't even matter whether we win the Ashes as long as we play an exciting brand of cricket then there is little point in having 2 divisions any more. I loved Norwell's heroics last season but I'd trade any prospect of that occuring again for the chance for youngsters in Derby, Canterbury, Hove and Leicester to see top level cricket in mid-summer once again and generate new county cricket aficionados in all the shires not just 7 select cities. The advantages of having one 18 team Championship far outweigh the merits of two divisions if there is no fear of failure at test level why should there be fear of failure at county level? If two divisions are retained I'd have 3 up 3 down again. more churn = more potential winning counties in future spread the joy

Also he'd probably get more opportunities if we were in Div 2 which we were. I sort of see him as the natural in-house successor to OHD but we need him to really come through now perhaps it might be at another county a bit like when OHD left Yorkshire

I'm thinking this past week has been a strong reason we should return to one single 18 team county championship. Firstly the format itself when played with no fear just kicks the crap out of any of the shorter format flotsam and jetsam.

Secondly, if and I say if the result no longer matters and it's entertainment that is THE key thing and if it's okay for England to lose 5-0 this series - so long as we've been entertaining - then I see no reason whatsoever why county cricket cannot return to the glory days of one single division 17 rounds of 4-day fixtures loads of festival grounds being used to host the matches no relegation so all youngsters can be given carte blanche to show what they can do and everyone have a similarly jolly time watching county cricket as 25,000 were able to yesterday

Grasp this opportunity while we can. County CHAMPIONSHIP CRICKET is the next best thing to what unfolded these past 5 days and must be restored to the centrepiece of the domestic season immediately.

GerryShedd wrote:

I thought that, having won the toss on that pitch and in this weather, 450 was the minimum score to settle for. But tomorrow, I may be proved totally wrong.
Think in normal pre Bazball mode you'd be right. This England team just think if they don't get that big score first innings they'll get them second innings instead and this being Edgbaston I doubt the pitch will deteriorate much so still all to play for. A lad next to us was wondering if they'd declare but I had to leave after root got his ton and was shocked when I heard they had declared

Yes we might not finish in the top two now which was always the most realistic possibility after the defeat to Surrey. I think it means we can however try some of the youngsters out a bit more so potentially might be a good thing

Exactly as I suspected on day 1.

Looking at how green the pitch was but it had been cut very short so nothing really for our seamers to work with so Notts obviously just watered it well enough in the lead up so that the pitch didn't break up in all this heat on days 3 + 4. It's what sides do who have no spin advantage. Briggs won us that game 2 years ago spinning Notts out to help us complete a double over them so they've clearly tried to neuter any advantage we have over them in that respect. High scoring draw was always likely in this instance.

It doesn't feel quite so warm here in Brum today maybe the same there but these Notts lads will be wiped out from being out on their feet all day yesterday and half of today. Greenish wicket but one I thought wouldn't provide all that much assistance to our attack I thought wrongly it seems

Did pretty well by all accounts fair play to him. Hadn't had a great April in the stiffs due all the poor weather etc so good to see he's still a useful county level 3rd or 4th seamer

Excellent point by Roland Butcher these pitches tailor made for Hassan he'll have grown up on them

It's what Davies was brought in to do get us off to a more brisk start. It didn't work out last season. Playing to the conditions is important let's not forget. Every season the bulk of our home games are April May and September (that presents problems as well as opportunities) so it can be quite a difference depending what grounds we have to play at away. We struggled last year at grounds like Canterbury and Bristol and had that shocker at Taunton. This year we've gone to Taunton (played far better but denied by the loss of a day and a half's play) won at the Rose Bowl and now Trent Bridge. Fast scoring test match grounds on decent wickets especially Trent Bridge which looks green here as they likely do not want the surface to break up too much so it will continue being fast scoring. Confidence too

I'm not sure there are any better spinners out there. All he needs to do is sow some uncertainty in their left handers minds with a couple that really turn and bounce. It's the first area you look to and say Australia have a massive advantage over England in terms of personnel and that's even when Leach was in the side but we're not going to bridge the gap to Lyon with one of the youngsters or Dawson. The other area they hold the cards is their front line seam attack perhaps trump's England's although you never know with Starc and Hazelwood might not be fit. Top order batting neck and neck I'd say and England might have the edge in the middle to lower middle order but not by much. Points to a very close fought series but Aussies should have enough to at least draw it

I'll be slightly more confident about England getting 20 wickets with Moeen in the side. His skill against the left handers particularly Travis Head could be invaluable to setting up 4th innings run chases that are achievable. Third innings our flagging seam attack and especially if Stokes can't bowl himself into the ground we may well need his experience

BristolBear wrote:

Really sums up the state of English spin bowling if we do go back to Moeen though.

Certainly does. The idea of division two Dom Bess coming back in doesn't fill me with too much confidence. I'd go Moeen and Rehan and see who's most suitable on a test by test basis

I think they'll certainly sound Moeen out about potentially making himself available for the first couple of tests at least for the squad and be available if conditions suit a particular attack

They might then use the extra month or so of time to prepare one of the youngsters for Old Trafford

Playing so late seems to me to negate the advantage gained in having a fixture on a weekend day. Surely there need not be such a long gap between the Double header games 2pm and 5pm would've been preferable to me.

Crowd couldn't have been much above 8 or 9,000 although the actual members section in front of the Dollery bar looked fuller than for the Blast off fixture much more sparse elsewhere

I may be completely wrong but I doubt that's it for Woakes. He's likely being wrapped in cotton wool just in case Jimmy pulls up or cannot get through two tests in a row. He's played two CC games Vs Surrey and Hants did fine in both and they're far better opposition than Ireland so doubt he needs this 'test' to prove anything to anyone. His role is very decent back-up for Jimmy Broad Robinson

Good luck to Josh Tongue who if he does well will be another option for England perhaps 4th or 5th test if the injuries rack up in the early part of the series

LeicesterExile wrote:

mad wrote:

realcounties.org.uk

I'm sure you'll be aware of this campaign bosworth. It is interesting the way county identity has slipped in the much of the UK in a way that hasn't been the case in for example Ireland. Ireland has done a better job of retaining county identities in the contemporary age where in Britain people are far more likely to identify with their city or town. Britain being more of an urban metropolitan country these days with vast suburbs housing two thirds of the population. Similar to the USA and Australia post 1950's prior to which even in America there was far clearer distinction between town and country

Interesting point of view. However, the problem is we have a cricket club called Warwickshire putting out a team called Birmingham. Perhaps what is needed is for one or two teams to change their name. Warwickshire becomes Greater Birmingham and likewise Lancashire becomes Greater Manchester. Surrey could become South London, Middlesex North London.

I certainly wouldn't want any of that. We just have to see the motivation at play here. Warwickshire because they have a big ground and a recent (post 1980's) record of success overall either 1st or 2nd most successful county side in that period, see themselves as a big county up with Yorkshire Lancs and Surrey. The next generation of cricket fan available to a club based in what was at least up until the commonwealth games a rather unppealing/uninviting inner city area of South Biimingham (particularly during rush hour and late evening) may not identify with Warwickshire as a real place (other than when they did English civil war history topic at school). To get the locals to take notice of the club it was thought required a complete overhaul. I do however think now the precinct around the stadium coupled with decent public transport options (pretty please) and the long overdue installation of cycle lanes separated from the main highway and a slight fall in rush hour traffic particularly on Fridays makes it more appealing for visitors so they can have confidence reverting to the historic and famous name

Edgbaston is a similar walking or taxi distance from the centre of Brum as the Oval is from Charing Cross Station so could in theory be able to draw in that type of crowd perhaps not midweek however

realcounties.org.uk

I'm sure you'll be aware of this campaign bosworth. It is interesting the way county identity has slipped in the much of the UK in a way that hasn't been the case in for example Ireland. Ireland has done a better job of retaining county identities in the contemporary age where in Britain people are far more likely to identify with their city or town. Britain being more of an urban metropolitan country these days with vast suburbs housing two thirds of the population. Similar to the USA and Australia post 1950's prior to which even in America there was far clearer distinction between town and country

On the name of the Blast team I'm willing to give the club some slack at this point. I do think traditional members like the traditional name in all formats and that's very valid and concerns are real - it does look daft when seeing the tables just as it looked daft seeing Glamorgan when they were called 'Wales'. However I can understand it from the club's point of view also. The term Warwickshire seems to have less resonance today within the city itself than it did 30 years ago. I very much doubt many kids learn at school that Brum was even part of Warwickshire. I think the club and the city council want Birmingham to have that same gravitas that Manchester has for quite some time now in the north west - that same allure especially given how fantastic the city can show itself to be. Manchester doesn't seem to get the same kind of negative attitude towards it from neighbouring boroughs like Bury and Bolton that Brum used to from Black Country folk and dormitory towns in the shires. Same is true of London and its relationship to other parts of the South East it seems more symbiotic rather than tribal. Maybe this is reducing over time too and youngsters in Sandwell and Dudley etc and dormitory towns like Lichfield and Bromsgrove... now find it very comfortable identifying with the idea that they live and work in an area that could easily be called 'Greater Birmingham' and they'd be happy about that fact in a way that previous generations of Black Country folk would rail against.

In a round about way what I'm getting at is the club seems to have explored ways to widen it's reach within the wider West Midlands conurbation and that has led them to adopting Birmingham or simply 'Bears' as a name reflecting that a significant proportion of the club's potential fanbase are not based in Warwickshire or have any real sense of the county as an entity. Whether the club has been successful in widening it's reach as a result of this is questionable

Also the ECB requirement for flatter pitches and subsequently counties needing faster seamers especially in Div 1 could be what has done for Milo. He'd have likely taken buckets of wickets this April but we've signed Hassan so we aren't gonna not play him are we?

Josh Davey has had to drop down to Div 2 to get a game this week maybe Milo can too I'd like to think he's good enough to eke out wickets for Derbyshire or the like. Bazball effect perhaps also having an influence. Milo needs 10-15 overs sustained pressure to extract a wicket or two whereas Rushworth OHD Hassan etc... can do that in 5 or 6

Milo would've been a great bowler for Worcestershire e.g. in the late 80's not quite as stocky as Phil Newport but that style