mad
Member
Yates needs a full season in one spot not being messed about and with a bit less pressure He'd probably get that in Div 2 next season aswell.
Ian Bell plundered Div 2 in one of his early seasons either 1999 or 2000 it was probably the making of him
Agreed. Its important to stress no matter what tricks the club uses to try to summarise the forum - Nobody on the floor within the forum made any suggestion as to the effect that they'd be at all comfortable with a reduction to 12 championship matches - so this should in no way be a major takeaway from this first forum.
If the club are intending to pursue 12 games as a viable compromise option they will be going completely at odds with the wishes and views of members following the initial consultation.
Also the way Warwickshire's written summary deals with the input Farbrace made is frankly disingenuous. In response to a number of points made about the relative success of the England test team between 2004 and 2019 in an era of stability and 16 CC matches (World number 1, 2 or 3 for the vast majority of that period) Farbrace did not say he supported a reduction to ten matches, he merely said from a purely hypothetical perspective it would give coaches more time etc... Well no shit Sherlock!!! If you listen to his response he actually advocated more red ball cricket.
Also let's do a comparison between county championship and premier league football since 1992. It might sound spurious but it's no more so than the dodgy dossier Strauss report.
Since 1992 there have been only 7 different teams win the premier league out of some 50 or so clubs that have competed in it. Meanwhile since 1992 lets count how many counties out of the 18 have won the title. Warwickshire, Essex, Leicestershire, Glamorgan, Surrey, Middlesex, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire, Sussex, Durham and Lancashire have all won the county championship since 1992 and we may well get to add Hampshire to that list in 2 weeks.
The county championship is brilliant - it was ace as one big 18 team division and also as 2 divisions of 9.
It would be foolish to wreck this and limit any top tier to a paltry 6 teams.
If anything a 6 team premier league would be far more suitable for football not county cricket
I need to flesh this out more but I think there is a compromise solution for 2024 that avoids much of the upheaval that would ensue if major changes occurred.
Firstly we have to retain a good number of counties being able to win the championship each season so that has to be 8, 9, or 10 - let's stick with 10 for now
I'd suggest in order to maintain 14 Blast games for the counties that really need that many there is an obvious way to reduce playing days in the other two formats without cutting the number of championship fixtures.
14 Championship games could be played as a mixture of 4-day and 3-day matches
April & May 5 rounds of 4-day matches
June & July 5 rounds of 3-day matches (longer days and helps fit the blast games in between more easily)
August & September 4 rounds of 4-day matches
Total 14 rounds of county championship matches (playing 9 4-day matches and 5 3-day matches)
RLODC three groups of six playing 5 matches - hundred host counties would only play two home matches and the other counties would host three matches. This was an issue mentioned at the forum. Instead of the RLODC taking up all of August I'd start the RLODC on the same weekend as Blast finals day so that counties that didn't qualify for Blast finals day have a game on the Sunday. The RLODC could all be wrapped up by mid-August (apart from the September final) enabling the championship to resume towards the end of August
Resuming the championship towards the end of August would be feasible as there'd only be the semis and the final of the hundred to finish off meaning that many hundred players will have already returned to their counties. This would also help bring an end to the county championship much earlier in mid September instead of ploughing on right to the last week of September.
I know 3-day matches would also be controversial but it'd be far better IMHO than losing those fixtures altogether. Also it would help counties take the odd game to out grounds at more reasonable cost. Did I hear Warwickshire are considering using Stratford-upon-Avon again?
Also these changes can be effected without major ripping up of the 2-division championship structure that has worked brilliantly for twenty three years and has served the England test team rather well
There were several really intelligent lines of questioning from the floor in the forum well worth listening to.
Farby himself seemed less than enamoured by the 100 and actually hinted at the players needing to play more red ball county cricket not less. I'm frankly disappointed by this continual attitude from county CEO's and chairs that the CC somehow isn't able to fund itself when the fact is without the CC there'd be no short form players to fill the blast or 16.4 sides nor England test cricketers from who's performances the game derives between 66% & 75% of its revenue.
Overall what I sense is a strong desire from both members and Paul Farbrace not merely to retain 14 championship matches but to return to 16 Championship matches which took England to world no 1 during the 2000's. This is a clear and logical outcome from this first forum which the committee ought to take forward and record in their recommendations to Stuart Cain when he writes his report to the board. I thought the ideas around perhaps having some 3-day matches in the middle of the season to help facilitate 16 matches were quite interesting too.
Crucially not one member on the floor suggested being happy with 12. However that's a figure that's been ascribed to members committee as representative of a suggested 'compromise' without any thought to the cost of such a major drop in the schedule. If the club try to pursue this line then I'm afraid they will be pushing a line that shows a clear split between the members committee and the wider membership at least as represented by the views in this first forum.
Well said Keaton Jennings. Exactly what I've been saying. Schedule properly so there's no need for any cuts.
"In my opinion you can keep the 14 County Championship games and that's only what Ben Stokes said on social media a few weeks ago," said Jennings. "But you can factor in breaks, so that you can play three four-day games and then have a break from the Championship. I think my view is representative and it certainly echoes what the England captain said.
"I think 14 games is a good amount and the cricket we play is of good quality, but the problem comes when you have a week off at the start of April and then another at the start of September. Including the Royal London Final, we play 13 days in September whereas in April we were playing 12 in 17."
Angus Fraser said this afternoon on TalkSport, that the Middlesex players were agreed in NOT wanting a reduction in Championship cricket.
Somerset are quite right of course with their statement this morning. Status quo not an option but no need to cut fixtures - in fact quite the opposite - a need to increase no of fixtures in summer
SCCC BOARD STATEMENT
The Board of Somerset County Cricket Club met last week to discuss the ECB Men’s High-Performance Review, led by Sir Andrew Strauss.
While the Review’s final recommendations are awaited, the Club’s Chair, Chief Executive and Director of Cricket, have recently been involved in consultation meetings with the ECB and officials from other First-Class Counties. The Board was updated on those discussions and was made aware of the ‘direction of travel.’
The Club’s Board welcomed the overarching objective of the Review – for England to become number one in the world across all formats within five years – and note that 14 of the 16 possible recommendations are proposed improvements which are not related to the domestic playing programme. It also unanimously agreed that, following the impact of COVID-19 and the macro-economic challenges facing the country, reform of the professional game in England & Wales is necessary to ensure the game is sustainable in the short, medium and long terms.
The Board has advised ECB that in its opinion:
The Review provides invaluable analysis on various topics, and identifies improvements which will help enhance professional cricket in this country
Clear standards that modern, progressive professional clubs need to deliver for England teams to be number one in the world are required.
Over a season, a diet of cricket across all formats which is satisfying for Members, paying spectators and players is required. The current domestic playing programme, which resulted in only four one-day matches being played in Taunton over 43 days in the height of summer this year, with 17 Somerset players unavailable, is unacceptable to the Club, its Members and the South West’s cricketing public.
It is crucial that the highest standard of men’s and women’s domestic cricket is available in the South West throughout the summer to satisfy the tremendous demand from Members and supporters, and to allow children to be inspired during school holidays and fall in love with cricket.
A path is needed to a sustainable funding model that will enable counties without a Test match venue to thrive at the top table of English cricket and allow Somerset to continue to provide a strong talent pathway from the entire South West region through excellent County cricket and into England teams.
It is critical that ample time is given to Counties to discuss any proposed changes with their Members, supporters, players, coaches, staff and wider stakeholders before any material changes are made to the programme.
The Club will be organising further consultation sessions with Members and other parties in early course.
No problem. Wasn't it good to see a small group of school children in for the afternoon session yesterday?
Let's not kid ourselves into feeling like we're blocking progress. Some facts about what we're nipping in the bud and why we need to remain vigilant the ECB and Warwickshire may have belatedly softened their offer for 2023-2024 but I fear they remain committed (from what I've heard) to the following to achieve what they consider "high performance" in the county and test environment. I think this would be a disaster and there are better approaches to take.
A Premier League of 6 counties with two feeder leagues of 6 counties with the winner of each feeder league playing each other to decide promotion, played June, July, September. 50 over comp in April, Blast starting in May. Blast I don't think they'll move to May now but the rest the ECB remain committed to and some county chiefs wouldn't appear to mind sadly
For those in the feeder league if you lose two games early on it basically means your season is over
Will be difficult for teams to get out of the feeder leagues. Talented players will be pushing to get a contract with a "premier team". Perennial feeder teams will concentrate on the white ball game. I thought we were trying to get away from this where Northants etc used to concentrate on their white ball season - they're now giving Surrey a damn good contest and will deservedly stay up
The "Premier League" will end up being Surrey, Lancs, Yorks, Essex, Notts and Hants at some point, i.e. the big six. Maybe Warks and Somerset the yo yo sides, will interrupt it seeing as someone has to go up and down. Money normally rises to the top eventually.
I just don't think you could seriously call a '6 team competition' a championship anymore - it'd feel more like a world cup qualifying group than an actual proper season long league if it ever came to pass
Whilst I would prefer 9+9 and 16 CC matches, a top league of 8 where everyone plays everyone home and away for a total of 14 would be best and would still just about feel like a proper league and I will continue pushing for a return to that set up. Two promoted two relegated is a minimum and must be retained.
Progress is not being held back. I'd suggest wanton vandalism is being restrained. Pleased to hear the committee are helping to restrain it based on feedback I've received which is commendable.
I've heard positive things about the forum (approx 300 attended) especially about the committee/club seeking to become more visible to the wider membership
It is however mid-September so we must take nothing for granted going into the off season. Deeds not words
The point of these changes baffles me too. Since 2004 England's test team have regularly been in the top three in the world rankings and very rarely (just for a few months here and there) fallen outside of it
County chairs must be very wary of ‘reviews’ after away Ashes thrashings which basically are a Trojan horse for drastic domestic change.
2021 was annus horibilis covid bubbles and a shambles of a preparation for the winter Ashes
England have no divine right to be world no 1
All sorts of socio-economic and environmental reasons why other test sides can produce world class players that overwhelm opponents in unforgiving conditions like in Australia or India. Mitchell Johnson and Pat Cummins. Reducing the CC to ten games isn't going to magic England up bowlers of that calibre.
A Nathan Lyon we should be able to conjour up however. Would certainly help if we played more cricket (NOT LESS) especially in summer months to try and unearth another couple of Graham Swann's mind but also keep some games in April/May/September to mould the next Jimmy and Woakesy
We're gonna be fed a lot of guff about player welfare at this forum
Warwickshire played 1 CC game in April then had a week off. Jumping forward they played just 8 days cricket in the whole of August which equates to another 2 weeks not having to play matches. Then there was last week when they had another week off.
If they lose 4 CC rounds that'll be another 4 weeks players resting.
The season used to only last 5 months - now it's been stretched out more so it lasts 6 months
The idea players suddenly need 2 months rest in the middle of an already short cricket season is preposterous.
How about they bank this additional 4 weeks rest in November and December. Bowlers in particular should have their feet up until the new year not be running about the gym fully 5 month's before cricket season
Another retort to the idea of chopping the CC up.
Well, there are only three matches left in Yorkshire’s season, but the coaches and Bean’s team-mates will know more about their new colleague after the home game against Essex and the visit to Surrey.
At the same time, even if Bean does well, Gibson will be careful not to praise him too much too soon. It is the trickiest of judgements. Even players who have a good first season can have their games dissected six months later and their careers destroyed. And folk wonder why I become impatient with people who tell me that county cricket is soft. Overseas players, even those with burgeoning Test careers don't seem to think so.
But let's have a last look at Fin Bean's record.
The indispensable Cricket Archive first records him playing for Yorkshire Under-14s against Derbyshire Under 14s at New Rover Cricket Club, Richmond Oval, in Leeds on June 5, 2016. Sadly, though, it won’t tell you much else because these things are dependent on the information fed into them and although Yorkshire won that match by eight wickets and Bean was not out, we have no information as to how many runs he scored.
Delve deeper and you will find hundreds of matches, many of them for Yorkshire's age-group sides, a few for England Under-19s and 76 games for York in the Northern Premier League – but then they say club cricket is soft, too.
Most spectacularly of all, you will find the match played at the Nottinghamshire Sports Ground this June in which Bean made 441, the highest individual score ever recorded in the Second XI Championship, for Yorkshire against Nottinghamshire.
By the time he was bowled by Calvin Harrison, he had batted 712 minutes, faced 518 balls and hit 52 fours plus three sixes. It is the sort of achievement that will get into next year’s Wisden but it does not mean that Bean will make it as a professional.
A lot of guff is talked about at the end of the cricket season. Yes, there is a certain sadness about the game in England ending for six months – already I'm wondering where I'll be in the last week of September – but I'm also looking forward to reading and thinking about other things, in addition to my winter writing schedule.
Somehow, my summers on the circuit have always been enriched by my life away from the game. And how many of you would like to spend an entire year watching four-day cricket or anything else come to that?
Yet one of the sweetest things about the final few games of the season is seeing a young player make a good debut and wondering where his cricket will have taken him by the time the leaves on the trees are green once more. The sight of such cricketers in early autumn should seem ironic but instead, it is fitting. It serves as a reassurance that there will be another season – when other young Yorkshire cricketers will be challenging for places in the team.
And once again, without really intending to do so or even mentioning his name until now, I find that I have written a response to much that Andrew Strauss has been proposing over the past few weeks.
If the number of first-class games is reduced and if county cricket becomes nothing more than a laboratory in which England players can be tested, the number of contracts available for players like Bean will be more limited. No doubt I'll return to this theme over the next month, so for the moment all I'd like to do is wish Fin Bean the very best as he tries to cut it in professional cricket. I hope even Lancastrians would join me in that.
Don't think we're far off now
People will be collecting signatures at the Somerset game so should far exceed the number required especially on Tuesday which is the day of the forum and forecast is very decent
As an aside did anyone listen to former Surrey player Mark Ramprakash yesterday who said on TMS that 10 FC games are simply not enough to produce English Test Match players.
I still cannot fathom why a proud county cricket club like Warwickshire - who have done so much over the years to advance the county game including that big loan to help Essex build their ground at Chelmsford and loans to help keep Surrey afloat when their ground was all ramshackled - would countenance a massive downgrade of the championship.
Last year people commented that the championship format was a bit silly but at least Warwickshire were worthy champions as they'd been forced to perform well in 8 of their 14 matches - wins v Notts twice, Essex, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and Somerset alongside very noteworthy draws away to last years favourites Essex and this years pre-season favourites Lancashire. In 6 other games Warwickshire underperformed quite a bit including the defeats to Durham and that crazy penultimate game v Hampshire.
If as rumours suggest the championship is downgraded to just 10 games it would only take a fortnight's worth of inclement weather to reduce this allocation to 8 and then you'd have a situation where a team could win the title by only really showing up for 3 or 4 games and drawing a couple of others - especially if the new rudimentary points system is introduced.
Warwickshire need to demonstrate solidarity with the county game, the hundred's of potential future county cricketers out there (just look at the success of the SACA initiative, which on a shoestring budget of £50,000 now has sufficient players to field 2-3 sides - players all chomping at the bit to get a county contract - and those are just the more senior guys), the county members and county cricket supporters more widely.
They've done brilliantly once again.
The pitches for the test match and finals day were superb let's hope for two more good pitches to finish the season
Another insightful post here this time on the Yorkshire forum earlier
These circus T20 events are going to lure freelance cricketers regardless of the shape or composition of the county championship so cuts to it won't have any positive impact with that regard
Strauss really is a piece of work, isn't he. Patronising and insulting people as self-interested if they disagree with him, a man for whom self-interest is a way of life. Feigning regret that he is constrained against changing the 100. The counties, again slow off the mark, should never have let him run the review. He has a personal interest in the outcome apart from anything else.
This media appearance and newspaper text is just rather crude negotiation conditioning and pressuring. And, as people have mentioned, contains muddled thinking. If there are pretty much 365 days a year global t20 leagues then that is a de facto split in the game. What he says is superficially plausible, but I am not sure how his plan works in that 365 t20 world any better than any other plan that involves significant CC, test and 50 over cricket.
He seems to be (probably deliberately - because of course he is cleverer than us) conflating the issues of performance standards and top player availability/enthusiasm for CC, test and 50. The CC, 50 and 20 over competitions should just plan to get on without them as this is going to happen anyway according to him.
Don't contort the domestic game just so we can see Dawid Malan bat once or twice a season.
Edit for the benefit of a WCCC committee member who might be reading this;
"Don't contort the domestic game just so we can see Chris Woakes bat/bowl one or twice a season"
I would have thought the bigger issue is the potential for the top players to choose global t20 over home and away tests. Test cricket is very likely going to have to get on without many top players as well. Mr Strauss is right to say that there is a global revolution going on. But his plan is, ironically, a doomed attempt to hold on to the past. There should be a formal split, with players of course able to move to the global t20 circus if they get the chance.
Thought this was an insightful read on the Middlesex forum this morning;
Facts and logic say that Strauss' latest threat is ridiculous.
A good player developed or spotted by a county gets awarded a contract of - say - 2 years' duration minimum. Maybe 3.
He and any other player under a term contract ain't going anywhere for that period unless the "super league franchise" buys the player out. Players are currently contracted for a 12 month period, not the April to September ones of yore.
The Strauss dream of "best playing best" also fails to acknowledge the reality that both player and employer like stability, so each knows where the other will be for the duration of the employment contract.
Each county is at a certain stage of the curve - either declining, advancing or treading water, and will have players both at similar stages, and at varying lengths of commitment to their current employer.
Unless the Strauss dream envisages buying e.g. Sam, playing for Div 2 Middlesex, out of his current contract to enable him to play for a top division team, and face a bought out Matthew Potts playing for another top tier team, which will cost more money, and - effectively - see even more central contracts by default, "best playing the best" is just straight fantasy.
A few years ago, the edict was that you couldn't play for England unless you were in Div 1. I think no one bothered to tell Alastair Cook, or even Strauss, let alone enforce that. So, this dream has come and gone before.
I wonder how long it will be before Strauss remembers his family, and decides he needs to spend more time with them.
If this board representing Warwickshire votes - as we fear it might - in favour of Strauss proposals there's a very real possibility our chances of ever winning the county championship again will be finished.
Relegation a distinct possibility this year and 2023 will be spent in division two there's likely to be no promotion as they'd want 4 down none up to make their ridiculously tiny division of six. From 2024 onwards it'd be one promotion place each season out of 12 counties in the bottom feeder divisions. There's a very real possibility Warwickshire might spend a decade or more sloshing about in such a feral league.
The draft schedule you saw is far superior to what's been reported by the telegraph regards Strauss proposals
Couldn't believe the reference I saw to what games they might consider putting on in August.
A review designed to improve the national side is now committed to helping Zimbabwe, Afghanistan & Scotland too...
🤣🤣🤣
This is Zimbabwe who've more or less given up on first class cricket already and like Ireland/Netherlands are intent to focus on 50 and T20
Back of a fag packet springs to mind. Strauss and his team of accountants have had, what, 6 months to come up with drivel like this????!!!!?