Hampshire looking like they are going to win & Kent looking likely to draw which will put us in the bottom 2

We don't look like we will take a wicket if we play all day

Essex are a very good side with some big time players right through their squad.

But that is still a very poor defeat!

Yes we have injuries, but the squad that has been built looks distinctly average and lacking in many areas.

There may well be big questions that need to be asked at the end of the season.

How can you lose a game having won the toss and having a First Innings lead of 235 (and so, the Follow On option)?! We can!

I seem to recall another recent game this happened (but can't remember which one?).

You're right, Streetly, BIG questions need to be asked - mainly about team selection (no front line spinner on a well known turning wicket) and the Captain/Management decision on the F/O, but also ANOTHER batting collapse.

Not enforcing the follow on was, in my opinion, the right decision. We should then have batted them out the game a=by getting a lead well in excess of 400 with a day and half to getting the 10 2nd innings wickets.

Looking forward to another post match Robinson interview about "taking the positives" from the defeat. We shouldn't be losing from that position.

Following on wasn't an issue, I think it was the right call.

The awful second innings performance has cost us this game. I think it's time to give Benjamin a go in the side over Mouseley. Worth him trying to find some from in the Blast.

Poor batting has been a reoccurring theme for years and yet the one constant in the coaching set up is the batting coach.

LeicesterExile wrote:

Not enforcing the follow on was, in my opinion, the right decision. We should then have batted them out the game a=by getting a lead well in excess of 400 with a day and half to getting the 10 2nd innings wickets.

It was obvious we should have enforced the follow on with that short period - 18 overs I think - left on Saturday evening.

A lesson for Davies et al that you don't give your opponent a break and let them off the hook when you are on top. It betrayed such a defensive mindset. I do hope we learn from this!

They were out of the game, they were a beaten team. We threw them the lifeline. Why give yourself another decision to make- “how many do we need?”. Awful management and captaincy, I cannot believe for a minute that the decision not to enforce the follow on was one that was universally agreed, certainly not by Simmonds, the young man must have been champing at the bit to get out and have a go at them. I forget the last time this team played hard cricket, if you have your opponent down, and he was down, don’t give him a hand to get back up. Our young, talented, batsmen need to get into the nets with a proper coach or careers that included expectations of international acclaim (Hain included) will frizzle away. This story is the same as last year and the year before.

It is interesting that over the past weekend both Andy Umeed and Tom Banton made good scores for Somerset, and Ed Pollock and Ethan Brookes have been doing well for Worcestershire 2nds.

Perhaps the issue isn't the coaching, but the choose of players that are kept and released. There are too many examples of players with mediocre, at best, performances been given extended contracts that their performances did not deserve.

ajones1328 wrote:

The awful second innings performance has cost us this game. I think it's time to give Benjamin a go in the side over Mouseley. Worth him trying to find some from in the Blast.

I (partly) agree over Benjamin - another one who Management feel can only play Limited Over cricket. I've seen him play well (sometimes' brilliantly) in Seconds Championship games - varying his attack & defence, far better than he used to and now judging pace & width pretty well. Its just that occasional 'rush of blood to the head' which can be his downfall. However, he does deserve far more red ball opportunities than he's been given.

The same point applies even more to Lintott. As I've said above, he has been shabbily treated by Management. 2 CC games in 3 years. He Captains the Seconds Championship team so well, he has developed a formidable armoury in his 'bowling locker' and can bat well. Just because he's regarded as a T20 specialist, he gets so overlooked in other forms of the game. He deserves so much more. That case is even stronger, given the decline of Briggs in red ball cricket - and the fact that he is the only alternative (experienced) front line spinner we have.

So, yes, Benjamin and Lintott should be given more opportunities (plural!) - possibly at the expense of Mousley & Bethell - their days will surely come again.

Sorry RayB we are going to have to agree to differ!! I take your point about not giving the oppo a lifeline when they are down. What gave them the lifeline was not the decision to not enforce the follow on, it was the dreadful batting performance in the second innings. I only saw two wickets fall - Davies and Barnard and both were truly wasteful.
Had we enforced the follow on and they got their heads down and built up a 200+ lead we could have been in a save the match situation on the 4th day. It was reasonable to assume on day three we would build a lead of over 400 and it would have been Essex having to pick themselves up to save the match.
All down to our second innings.

One question,though. Could things have been different if Briggs and/or Lintott been selected?

I am happy if you choose to pass over the decision to not enforce the follow on, all about opinions. The fact remains that they were already down and had just been bowled out, in less than a day, on their own muck heap, by a kid making his debut and a part time spinner, in 50 overs and facing the prospect of being back at the crease in 10 minutes. To say nothing of a 230+ first innings deficit!!!! Can you imagine who had to pick themselves up ? One and a half hours later they had 5 wickets in the bag and had been handed the ultimate get out of jail card. They couldn’t believe their luck, they would have been absolutely delighted and couldn’t wait to get at us next morning. Who would have slept the better that night? And us? We went back to our dressing room and hotel, with our tails between our legs and embarrassed. Totally unnecessary, crass, stupid arrogant, probably all of them.

The question of the follow on is irrelevant if we bat well. The logic is sound in that sense.
Score 200-250 and we win.
But as Davies said we were 50-5 twice. That’s a joke.

On Benjamin, we’ve seen him come in off plenty of runs from the 2’s and not do well.
The issue is a lack of accountability. How can we have players in the top order who consistently don’t score runs unless it’s dead flat? Worse than that, we make arguably the worst offender for that captain. Which sets the tone.
How can you drop anyone, if that’s the standard the captain sets? Any batsman that gets dropped can rightly feel aggrieved because the rest of the top order are doing the same.
Mousley is still treated like a 17/18 year old kid fresh out the academy. He’s 23 in a couple of months and has played 25 FC matches never scoring a century and averages about 25. He’s got to be accountable for his performances.
Bethell similar though he is less experienced.
You look at that top order and it’s clear you’re missing a genuine batsman at 5, because Barnard should be number 6, Burgess 7, and if you’re picking them for their spin either Mousley or Bethell should be 8 because they aren’t batting well enough to have a place in the top order.
Ultimately it comes down to once again the squad not being strong enough, with too many resources spent on white ball.

Have to agree about the opinions that we are prioritising the T20 Blast. If you have a good championship side, that is the basis of all good clubs. A good 4-day side usually contains players who will play T20 anyway, Davies, Yates, Hain, Bethell, Mousley, Woakes, Briggs, Miles, O H-D, etc so if the core are good, getting a big name to add in T20 doesn't always work anyway and a few of the recent winners of that competition have not had outstanding contributions from overseas players anyway. If you get the 4-day side right, you will get a lot of players for T20 from there and by all means get a good overseas signing but we have struggled to get a good signing in the CC lately apart from Hasan Ali but it's unfortunate that Pakistan keep picking him to carry the drinks. I hope something positive comes out of this poor defeat and regardless of whether or not we should have made them follow-on, if you get skittled for 94, it knocks your confidence, the opposition get a lift and they go into the last innings with a mindset of "We should be out of the game but we have now given ourselves a chance and to win now would be massive" and from our point of view the opposite applies. Hopefully a few 'rockets-up-the-posterior' for the team and they should all be told that no one is guaranteed a place in the side.

The_Lickey_Banker wrote:

ajones1328 wrote:

The awful second innings performance has cost us this game. I think it's time to give Benjamin a go in the side over Mouseley. Worth him trying to find some from in the Blast.

I (partly) agree over Benjamin - another one who Management feel can only play Limited Over cricket. I've seen him play well (sometimes' brilliantly) in Seconds Championship games - varying his attack & defence, far better than he used to and now judging pace & width pretty well. Its just that occasional 'rush of blood to the head' which can be his downfall. However, he does deserve far more red ball opportunities than he's been given.

The same point applies even more to Lintott. As I've said above, he has been shabbily treated by Management. 2 CC games in 3 years. He Captains the Seconds Championship team so well, he has developed a formidable armoury in his 'bowling locker' and can bat well. Just because he's regarded as a T20 specialist, he gets so overlooked in other forms of the game. He deserves so much more. That case is even stronger, given the decline of Briggs in red ball cricket - and the fact that he is the only alternative (experienced) front line spinner we have.

So, yes, Benjamin and Lintott should be given more opportunities (plural!) - possibly at the expense of Mousley & Bethell - their days will surely come again.

I completely with you LB, about Lintott. Benjamin has had opportunities - and not taken them - but Lintott has had a terrible crack of the whip. Given Briggs' red ball problems over the last 2 seasons, the Club should either have signed another experienced spinner, or given Lintott a fair go in Championship cricket. I think he'd do well, if given a run of games - and as you say, he's a decent bat.

Couple of interesting points being discussed. If you've made 90 odd second innings it's hard to look any further than this for that defeat. A supporting factor is both the quicks who did the damage first innings were nowhere near as effective second innings and both went for more than four an over. I think we let them off the hook though, both inexperienced. We know out batting has been poor for a number of years now. Its doubly damaging now that this is combined by an increasingly threadbare bowling attack too. Will we see Woakes , Ali and Rushworth play anytime soon?

Alex Davies sums it up on the Club website:
"We had a first-innings lead of 235, it’s criminal to lose a game from that position."
Enough said!

GerryShedd wrote:

Alex Davies sums it up on the Club website:
"We had a first-innings lead of 235, it’s criminal to lose a game from that position."
Enough said!

Under his Captaincy. He's poor, inexperienced, and has been installed on a platau that is far out of his grasp. The worst of it is, Robbo has been buffing up the shield of Davies and in turn he has been accepting gladly said coat of arms.

There needs to be an overhaul and it needs to happen soon.

IMO.