I don’t think it’s a playing squad issue.
If you look around based on pure talent, we have a side that is up there. To me there’s 3 clear problems.
1) In the last couple of years a real mental block seems to have developed at crunch time. But we know that many of these players have performed in big moments before, and also so many different players across the 2 years and formats, so it’s not like it’s a personal issue.
It seems to be a collective thing that has emerged. Ironically the player who’s spent the least time around the squad on Norwell, had his major moment last year. And you just wonder if it’s something going on within the group as a whole.

2) Players seem to have regressed, not progressed or just not been playing. If you look at the last 2 years, Davies, Rhodes, Yates, Briggs, Norwell, Miles, Brookes, they’ve all stalled or regressed from where you’d expect them to be. You could argue Benjamin, Bethell and Ethan Brookes haven’t developed as expected either. So we’re not getting players performing to their potential.

3) We peak at the wrong time, it looks like we switch between formats really well on the surface. We started fast in both the T20 and ODC. But if you look at the championship results around that, just before the ODC a pretty poor draw against Lancs and an awful loss to Middlesex.
You look at the championship results around the start of T20 and it’s a match we managed to not get over the line against Notts and a bad loss to Essex.
So you wonder if too much thought is given to the upcoming format. We peak early in that format, the championship results drop off, and then because we’ve peaked early by the time it’s crunch time we’re on the downslope and always seem to lose.

To me all three of those problems are coaching issues. And I know I’m not the only one who’s heard the rumblings from behind the scenes about Robinson, his personality and how he seems to not be the most popular with the squad.

I’m not sure rumours about the dressing room or individual personalities are particularly helpful, especially as I have never seen any evidence provided for these. If anyone has a source for them, please do share.

BristolBear wrote:

I don’t think it’s a playing squad issue.
If you look around based on pure talent, we have a side that is up there. To me there’s 3 clear problems.
1) In the last couple of years a real mental block seems to have developed at crunch time. But we know that many of these players have performed in big moments before, and also so many different players across the 2 years and formats, so it’s not like it’s a personal issue.
It seems to be a collective thing that has emerged. Ironically the player who’s spent the least time around the squad on Norwell, had his major moment last year. And you just wonder if it’s something going on within the group as a whole.

2) Players seem to have regressed, not progressed or just not been playing. If you look at the last 2 years, Davies, Rhodes, Yates, Briggs, Norwell, Miles, Brookes, they’ve all stalled or regressed from where you’d expect them to be. You could argue Benjamin, Bethell and Ethan Brookes haven’t developed as expected either. So we’re not getting players performing to their potential.

3) We peak at the wrong time, it looks like we switch between formats really well on the surface. We started fast in both the T20 and ODC. But if you look at the championship results around that, just before the ODC a pretty poor draw against Lancs and an awful loss to Middlesex.
You look at the championship results around the start of T20 and it’s a match we managed to not get over the line against Notts and a bad loss to Essex.
So you wonder if too much thought is given to the upcoming format. We peak early in that format, the championship results drop off, and then because we’ve peaked early by the time it’s crunch time we’re on the downslope and always seem to lose.

To me all three of those problems are coaching issues. And I know I’m not the only one who’s heard the rumblings from behind the scenes about Robinson, his personality and how he seems to not be the most popular with the squad.

Point 3 is a decent shout and something I hadn't considered.

Genuine question, I haven't seen any of today. But was this one of those quasi-autumnal games where the toss loser gets put in and they got shot out, chasing team win at a canter? I see Dawson got a load of wickets, but had the seamers put us on the backfoot already and he cleared up?

"Clutch" games are definitely a key issue. As well as the knock out white ball games we lost crucial CC games too where a win or a good draw would have seen us in a stronger position. I'm not sure it's totally a coaching issue, there's limited impact when the players are on the field. Without knowing if this was an autumn result we don't know for sure its a choke or not. Not sure if they're getting better at it or not.

While we're on Robinson, I can remember rumours saying he ruffled a few feathers with England women. But England women were much stronger at the end of his reign. This will be his third season completed so he can't blame predecessors. If we get, say, third in the CC, fourth in the one day then 8th in the Blast, is that removal territory?

In any workplace, sport, factory or office, management expecting mediocrity from their favourites has a demoralising effect on the rest of the workforce. This season 3 full county caps were awarded to players who did not deserve the honour, based on the level of performance that was previously needed to earn a full county cap.

While Robinson remains as coach that is not going to change, as a club we should not be accepting mediocrity, and definately not from capped senior players.

Here's what Liam Dawson had to say after the match:
https://deepextracover.com/2023/08/liam-dawson-we-put-in-a-perfect-performance/

Tayls79 wrote:

Genuine question, I haven't seen any of today. But was this one of those quasi-autumnal games where the toss loser gets put in and they got shot out, chasing team win at a canter? I see Dawson got a load of wickets, but had the seamers put us on the backfoot already and he cleared up?

"Clutch" games are definitely a key issue. As well as the knock out white ball games we lost crucial CC games too where a win or a good draw would have seen us in a stronger position. I'm not sure it's totally a coaching issue, there's limited impact when the players are on the field. Without knowing if this was an autumn result we don't know for sure its a choke or not. Not sure if they're getting better at it or not.

While we're on Robinson, I can remember rumours saying he ruffled a few feathers with England women. But England women were much stronger at the end of his reign. This will be his third season completed so he can't blame predecessors. If we get, say, third in the CC, fourth in the one day then 8th in the Blast, is that removal territory?

Huge toss to win for Hampshire. Was very dull and dank at 11am with the ball swinging and nipping about off the pitch. Some of the dismissals look terrible in isolation and there was a fair amount beating the bat with some playing and missing and the odd delivery popping off a length from the Pavilion End. Tough pitch. Dawson was getting a decent amount of turn. Even Hain looked a bit iffy and a bit streaky at times. There was some dubious umpiring too but we did play some poor cricket no doubt, you simply cannot get run through for 93.

I still think we're having a decent season in comparison to last season.

I always get the feeling that unless fringe players have really been establishing themselves, it is difficult to see them making contributions in important games. Lintott looks too high at 8 unless it is the end of an innings with a few big shots at the end but could anyone see Bethell or Brookes building an innings of 70-80 to get us near a score good enough to defend as they hadn't really done it previously. As soon as we were 5 down I could not see a way back and here we are, 'The Early Peakers' do it again and can we seriously blame management.

I always think with Bethell it's a case of one step forward one step back. He'll play a nice little innings illuminated with terrific strokes underlining his huge ability (like v Derbyshire) and you think he's cracked it then in the following games he'll be presented with a situation where he can really take charge and get a big score in a pressure situation (like v Sussex or today) and he ends up not doing it.

But he is very young and he won't get better at this by playing in the 2's or by not playing at all so you look for the year on year improvement. He's a better player than last season but right now he's very loose.

Before we sack the coach and half the playing squad, perhaps we should step back and realise that, so far this season, we have, in all competitions, won 22 games and lost just nine. We are fourth in Division One of the Championship and topped our groups in both the Blast and the One Day Cup.
That doesn't mean it's ok to lose at the quarter and semi-final stages but it does mean that the season has been far from a disaster.

Tail end runs have been a problem for us all season. In the County Championship even though we're better than last season we're still a little bit '6 down and all out quickly'.

Surrey's top order have been no better than ours this season, not much better anyway. However they can be 110-4 then 285-8 then 340 a/o. They do all the time whether it be Abbott, Joverton, Worrall or Lawes etc. We could never...

We do lack tail order runs. Remember 2011/12 when we might have Clarke, Woakes, Maddy, Barker and Jeets at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10!

We have a coach who not only accepts mediocrity from some players, but actually promotes it by giving out full county caps to three players when the range and quality of their performances did not deserve that honour.
By allowing, certain players, to under perform consistantly, it has a negative effect on the rest of the squad.

Significant changes are needed to re-establish a winning culture, where excellence is the minimum expected. That probably needds the removal of the head coach, and a large change to the playing squad. We have players who have been on the staff for 3-4 years and are nowhere near being a valid first team option, as well as players who get selected for every game, regardless of their poor performances.

GerryShedd wrote:

Before we sack the coach and half the playing squad, perhaps we should step back and realise that, so far this season, we have, in all competitions, won 22 games and lost just nine. We are fourth in Division One of the Championship and topped our groups in both the Blast and the One Day Cup.
That doesn't mean it's ok to lose at the quarter and semi-final stages but it does mean that the season has been far from a disaster.

Exactly this. We've improved loads and we're far more competitive than 2022. Some major overreacting going on in here. I'm not keen on Robinson either, I too have heard things, but he ain't in sack territory going off this season thus far.

As poorly as we definitely played, Barker and Dawson looked very good.
As we well know Barker with fire in his belly in overcast conditions, is a serious handful, and he passed the bat a lot. He really set the tone, he made batting difficult, which on a day like today immediately puts the dressing room on the back foot.
And then Dawson might be one of the worst bowlers to face on that pitch in those conditions. He said to the media how he played at Edgbaston on that pitch earlier in the week in the Hundred, and it turned then so he knew there’d be turn. He also knows he bowls faster than most spinners so can often extract more turn on pitches that turn. To compound that knowledge and skill, this pitch definitely turned and bounced, but not consistently which made it so hard. So the speed he bowled at, caused even more problems.
Bethell and Burgess’ dismissals were perfect examples.
The ball before Burgess got out he went back expecting bounce and turn, and it skidded on and stayed low because of Dawsons pace. He had to dig it out to avoid being bowled.
Next ball Burgess played forward to a similar ball, if anything sliding down leg, except this turns and bounces a decent amount past his outside edge and bowls him.
Bethell came down the wicket hoping to try limit the effect of that variation in bounce and turn, and got done by it gripping but this time not bouncing as much as you’d expect.
You’d hope for better from them, but at the same time I have great sympathy with them in that situation. As they’ve tried to learn the lessons of earlier but still been outdone by a bowler utilising the conditions perfectly to their advantage. So definitely a good chunk of credit to Dawson and Barker too, as well as some poor cricket from the bears.

That Dawson interview is a good one. He's bowling has improved a lot this season, he's a very canny operator who knows his game inside and out.

Farbrace made an approach for him in 2019 but he chose to stay put which is entirely fair.

You do wonder if the "time of year" had something to do with yesterday. The game at Leicester followed almost identical pattern. Leics won the toss, fielded, skittled Gloucs out for a really low score and apart from a shaky start knocked the runs off with ease.

Time of year a factor in more ways that one. Interesting that captain and OHD handed over their shirts. Maybe I'm reading too much into that but feels potentially symbolic

LeicesterExile wrote:

You do wonder if the "time of year" had something to do with yesterday. The game at Leicester followed almost identical pattern. Leics won the toss, fielded, skittled Gloucs out for a really low score and apart from a shaky start knocked the runs off with ease.

I'm certain that Rhodes would have bowled first if he had won the toss.
I saw Gloucestershire twice last week win easily when they bowled first so I'm sure they would have done the same against Leicestershire who are the surprise team of the competition.

I suppose I'm being hopelessly naive but is it in order to ask why we were playing a Cup semi-final on a used wicket that even the opposition knew would be difficult to bat on? Is this another example of just where Warwickshire cricket sits in the "Edgbaston" priorities?

Going a bit off subject but.... Has anyone any experience of the final being held at Trent Bridge in terms of does it get sold out like the T20 Finals Day? One of my sons follows Leics and is would prefer to see what the weather is like before committing to going.