KingofSpain wrote:

I'm not sure why lack of "facilities" is cited as a reason not to play at outgrounds. As long as there is enough space and a decent pitch, that's all that really matters. Everything else can be brought in: seating, marquees, vendors, toilets etc.
Warwickshire is a county cricket club and it does not revolve around Edgbaston, despite its "facilities" in the members lounge.

I think its a myth and excuse.

Its purely about the will and the current culture of those running the Club.

The Clubs I mentioned earlier are all more than capable of staging first class matches. Timed right there would be much bigger crowds than Edgbaston and no reason why it should run at a loss given sponsorship etc. I remember local companies ensuring their sponsorship went to Griff rather than Warwickshire to ensure continuity of staging.

Not sure what induction non exec Board members receive but one would hope the geography of the historic county and the history of WCCC would play as prominent a role as "Edgbaston Stadium" (the artist formerly known as the County Ground, Edgbaston)

The_Lickey_Banker wrote:

Bald_Reynard wrote:

Highveld wrote:

ECB regulations state that games should be played within the county, or at a venue with established links.

Kidderminster and Stourbridge are both in Worcestershire, so are not viable options, likewise I can't see Derbyshire agreeing to Warwickshire use their ground in Derby.

The only ground in Worcestershire that Warwickshire could legitimately use would be Barnt Green, which is a wonderful club ground, one of my favourites, and has an excellent wicket, however it does not have the facilities needed to host a first class or list A game.

The rule that a County has to have "established links", to move to a ground outside the County, clearly allows for us to have games in Staffordshire. We have a very close development relationship with Staffs. There must be loads of good quality grounds in the Black Country, or elsewhere. Staffs MC play in Stoke and Stone, I know Wolverhampton, Walsall and West Bromwich (Dartmouth) used to have great facilities - but its been many years since I've been, so don't know what they're like now. Thoughts?

This season Staffs NCCCA team has played at West Brom Dartmouth, Himley and Smethwick in the Black Country. Dartmouth is an ideal venue for the Bears. Great wicket, wonderful spectator & clubhouse facilities and a large captive, cricket loving 'audience' on the doorstep - and literally a mile from the Birmingham boundary! What caps it all, is the facilities there are so good, they've been chosen to host the NCCA Championship Final, in September.

WBD IS the obvious candidate for any Outground game.

While Dartmouth would probably be a wonderful venue for any 'Outground' games, West Brom is not really the ideal place, for 'taking Warwickshire games out of Brum' - it pretty much is in Birmingham (don't tell them that though - you know what Baggies fans think of that idea)! If Staffordshire is a possibility, perhaps further afield in the Black Country (Wolverhampton is an obvious location), or a decent ground further up the County (I seem to remember Stafford and Stone having good grounds and Knypersely near Stoke is regularly used for Staffs game - again, with a large cricket fan base available).

It would be ridiculous to play at an outground which wasn't in Warwickshire.

And there's no need whatsover!

It seems ridiculous but given the lack of realistic alternatives might be one option to consider for the short term. How about roping off a park like they used to in Colchester? Is there any town nearby with such a facility? Anywhere in Sutton or Lichfield perhaps?

I thought Stratford was fine the two years we played there. Certainly just the job in terms of honeypot town. You'd get the right mix of cricket tragics from near and far and incidental visitors popping in for a peek.

Outground cricket can be wonderful, but the question is will the income generated from playing at an outground even cover the costs of staging the game.
Remember we have one of the best grounds in the country, that has fixed operating costs even if it is not used. Is it financially sensible to use a ground elsewhere, with all the additional costs involved, if that involves the club making a significant financial loss?

Short term up-front costs sure. But certainly no more costly than the sums ploughed into a fourth format nobody asked for or needed.

Long term the benefits if slightly intangible would be enormous. A championship fixture in Stratford every other season and a white ball fixture or two in Rugby during the in-between season should be achievable and desirable for most. Certainly worth sacrificing one Edgbaston fixture in order to allow prep for the test match and still have a home fixture in June/July rather than have to endure two thirds of our home fixtures shunted to April and September and the lack of any cohesiveness to a season that that generates.

When September arrives after this teo-thirds empty month for cricket we're into now it'll feel like a brand new season

I got the impression with the last game at Edgbaston against Middlesex that everybody had had enough.

The pitch was poorly prepared. the facilities aren't great and lunch wasn't even ready on time in Tom Dollery.

The crowd was low.

A revived regular fixture in Nuneaton would bring in 1-2000. Perhaps Coventry even more.

Not only does it bring cricket to people and increase interest it reminds us who our County actually represents.

Unfortunately with AGMs and Members Committee currently mere talking shops I cant see change coming because so much accountability was lost under recent Chairs and CEOs.

If the there is a ground somewhere that can provide decent viewing, comfort and toilet facilities then I'm sure people would be game. I certainly would.

But sitting on folding chairs that feel as though they could collapse at any moment (maybe I need to go on a diet) for 7/8 hours whilst peering through the gaps inbetween people's heads to try and get a glimpse of the game just won't do. And then you have to use a portoloo when you need to the toilet. I mean come on.

Outgrounds can occasionally be good but they do present problems.

Each of those problems can present themselves at test venues as well. Plenty of portaloos in operation up at old Trafford a couple of weeks back. Sight lines and viewing aren't 100% perfect at every test ground either, think of all the restricted view seating they offer at Lord's. Outgrounds are ideal for folks drifting in and out of a Championship fixture and having a rather pleasant extended lunch in the nearby town centre rather than being plonked in one's seat for 7-8 hours. This is what could be gained by having a fixture at a festival venue such as Stratford or rugby or if there was an ideal site within Coventry or north Warwickshire. Edgbaston great as it is when full (imho the best ground in the country when it's full) but when 9/10ths empty it really struggles to pull in the floating voter. Warwickshire could win loads more supporters by reaching out to the county or doing something oddly exciting like staging a home fixture at the seaside

I have just been looking at a report of the Notts home match at Welbeck today, in which Jamie Ramage says: "The ground on the outskirts of Mansfield has the feel of a traditional outground with banks around the boundary for spectators to get the best views of the action. Marquees with home-made cakes and a low-rise pavilion, it is the perfect setting for county cricket."
Pity we haven't got a Welbeck.

Having spent today umpiring the first day of a Junior county festival at Rugby School today, It's fair to say that while it is a lovely ground, that is exceptionally presented and maintained, and has a very good wicket. the facilities at the ground are not up to what is needed for Professional cricket without massive expenditure on seat, toilet facilities, catering and sheleter. there is also the question of where to park cars for spectators, staff and officials.

todays event, with only families of the young players parking, plus officials and coaches etc totally filled all the available parking areas, there is no way the ground could cope with the numbers needed for a financially successful county game.

Interestingly today I spoke to an ex Warwickshire captain, a former Warwicks wicketkeeper and the grandson of a 1970's Warwickshire bowler.

GerryShedd wrote:

I have just been looking at a report of the Notts home match at Welbeck today, in which Jamie Ramage says: "The ground on the outskirts of Mansfield has the feel of a traditional outground with banks around the boundary for spectators to get the best views of the action. Marquees with home-made cakes and a low-rise pavilion, it is the perfect setting for county cricket."
Pity we haven't got a Welbeck.

Interesting post thanks.

As has been mentioned lots of times now we have lots of Welbecks.

It’s a question of will by the club and making it happen in the same was Notts and Glamorgan have.

I saw Gary Barwell today moaning about having to use one of the last fresh strips for the Hundred at Edgbaston.

We really do need to be more enlightened!

GerryShedd wrote:

I have just been looking at a report of the Notts home match at Welbeck today, in which Jamie Ramage says: "The ground on the outskirts of Mansfield has the feel of a traditional outground with banks around the boundary for spectators to get the best views of the action. Marquees with home-made cakes and a low-rise pavilion, it is the perfect setting for county cricket."
Pity we haven't got a Welbeck.

Old Hill has this banking but is rather hemmed in by its surrounds and we'd be playing in Staffordshire/Worcestershire technically depending on how far you go back. I like what they've done with Smethwick's ground over last few seasons really needed a lick of paint and some TLC and it's bigger than Old Hill but perhaps too close to Edgbaston to be considered an outground

The grounds with adequate space for parking and setting up large marquees are probably too far out of the way to be viable unless any suggestions can be made. South Warwickshire near Edge Hill and the border with Banburyshire there must be a nice setting but I'm not familiar with the grounds down there. Banbury CC itself is excellent but obvs outside the county

In 1960 when age 12 living in Nuneaton, I strolled to Griff and Coton to watch Warwickshire in my first County Championship game, being immediately hooked. Games at Coventry Courtaulds, many others at Griff and then schoolboy visits to what became my temple, Edgbaston. I was a Member for years until moving to the South Coast and now follow every ball, either by the excellent live stream or on ESPN Crickinfo. A lifetime of enjoyment (mostly) and I am a proud Warwickshire man in Hampshire, who refuses all offers of going to the soulless Rose Bowl. When living in Nuneaton 20 miles from Edgbaston, without out ground cricket it is unlikely I would ever have caught the Bears Bug, I even had Country Membership which no longer exists and there was always a huge following in Nuneaton. No out ground matches and this following cannot be nurtured, a following which take it from me lasts a lifetime,

South-Coast-exile wrote:

In 1960 when age 12 living in Nuneaton, I strolled to Griff and Coton to watch Warwickshire in my first County Championship game, being immediately hooked. Games at Coventry Courtaulds, many others at Griff and then schoolboy visits to what became my temple, Edgbaston. I was a Member for years until moving to the South Coast and now follow every ball, either by the excellent live stream or on ESPN Crickinfo. A lifetime of enjoyment (mostly) and I am a proud Warwickshire man in Hampshire, who refuses all offers of going to the soulless Rose Bowl. When living in Nuneaton 20 miles from Edgbaston, without out ground cricket it is unlikely I would ever have caught the Bears Bug, I even had Country Membership which no longer exists and there was always a huge following in Nuneaton. No out ground matches and this following cannot be nurtured, a following which take it from me lasts a lifetime,

I think it was under the leadership of Povey that saw the demise of the county membership as well as imposing a massive increase for retired persons if they wanted to be able to use the new members' lounge. It would be interesting to know how these moves impacted on membership figures

As a young family man living in Nuneaton, 20 plus miles away, who was counting the pennies, Country Membership kept me on board, took my three boys as well when they were older. Warwickshire is a big county with large following for WCCC in: Nuneaton, Coventry, Rugby, Warwick, Leamington and many others, even Tamworth and Lichfield in Staffs. Look after the members and long term they will look after you, the out ground games and Country Membership are short-sighted relics of the past, it is 2023 and it's called progress. What is progress and first class is live streaming, I thank all involved, but it isn't the same as actual live cricket.

The Country Memberships got me interested in going regularly and I remember feeling disenchanted when Povey removed it.
Ironically, it was Povey who initiated the outground experiment at Rugby School, although that may have been something to do with his son being privately educated there at the time.

The Povey era was pretty disastrous all round.

Marginalisation of the members, ludicrous branding of Edgbaston and creation of the awful Birmingham Bears.

BosworthBear wrote:

The Povey era was pretty disastrous all round.

Marginalisation of the members, ludicrous branding of Edgbaston and creation of the awful Birmingham Bears.
Not to mention the Povey Pavilion, that concrete Citadel where the sun doesn't shine.

Not everyone at Notts is best pleased. I guess having three games at outgrounds is pushing things just a bit too far in this current climate when home games are at such a premium particularly at the height of summer - a situation which is itself ridiculous as we all know

> I have spouted my usual diatribe on another NOTTS View thread!
Basically ref the “ home” and “away” debate -
A- a coach should be provided from TB to Welbeck each time a “ home” game is played THERE. If only 10/20/30 Members decide to use the service then so be it - but ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO
2- Welbeck do their best and should be congratulated . But ONE LIMITED OVERS GAME a season is enough . It’s too much to expect NOTTS Members to struggle to Welbeck three times in as many weeks.
3 - The HINDRED is doing just that ! Hindering the whole season one way and another. It just cannot be allowed to shape future playing seasons .
4- Trent Bridge cricket ground is known throughout the world . It’s madness for loyal and faithful fans to be directed to watch cricket in the middle of nowhere.(
More to come tomorrow after some careful thought!