As this encompasses all forms of the game, it is probably better to start a new thread for the topic.

I'll start with a question, with the increased concentration on Womens cricket, how has that affected the time spent and the budget allocated to the mens program?

Another relevant question is, what percentage of the playing budget was spent on T20 only players, and who decided that was the best use of those limited resources?

Finally, for now, who made the final decision of the overseas players signed, & what other options were considered? Did the club look at the whole market or just accept suggestions exclusively from a favoured agent?

I cannot comment of the women's game as I do not know the in's and out's of how much the club has concentrated on that subject. As for the T20, I think many on here have commented on too much emphasis on this format as we still have struggled to get an overseas player who appears to be a specialist at T20 and can really make their mark, unfortunately, Hasan Ali despite the odd decent game in this format, does not fit the bill and Glenn Maxwell did not cover himself in too much glory when he played last season. I have always believed that you should build a good overall squad and you try to make CC cricket your strong suit and you should build your T20/50 overs team from that. The overseas player is a subject which annoys so many as we appear to have not tried hard enough and if a club of our size with a successful record of 16 trophies since 1989, better than most counties, cannot get players to come here then we need to ask about our process of how are the club looking for players. It can't be just money, Surrey picked up Worral, how, why and who. No one was aware of him and when he first appeared on the scene, no one had any idea about him or where he came from and yet here we are a few years later, asking the question of how we cannot manage to grab a player like that. Also, just what are we looking for in an overseas player, someone who was a good Test player who is now just looking to play a few seasons of county cricket, a player who hasn't yet hit the mark but is inexpensive or someone who is a proven Test performer who we are happy to get 8-10 performances out of in the CC. Also we need to ask ourselves how many different formats we can get from an overseas player and if we can not wear him out before the season is over. There are so many things to consider before we recruit a player, age, experience, longevity over a season and how many formats that player wants to commit to. In Jeetan Patel we got so lucky as he came here with no reputation and I for one asked, "Why him, his record is poor and an off-spinner, seriously". Boy, did I get that wrong and we were lucky that New Zealand did not appear to rate him so he never missed much cricket, wanting to play every game and racking-up 161 consecutive game in all formats. We will never get another like him, he was a one off, but I would love to know the clubs criteria for recruiting the overseas players.

Can't understand the overseas situation. Have we been massively unlucky? Maxwell was/is one of the worlds leading white ball cricketers, was so clearly the best available player to us at the time. Did we expect too much? Was he as bad as we remember? I'm not sure he was. Was fair to expect more though.

Re. Worrall. Hold on a sec, he played for Gloucestershire for 3 or 4 seasons so it's not like Surrey unearthed a gem out of nowhere. Only when he gained his British passport did Surrey pinch him. Good player though, clearly.

Jeets what a player, clearly. Crucially NZ schedule was quite light for a such a long period. We did lose him to international duty on a couple of occasions, 2012 he was gone for about 6 or 7 weeks as NZ toured India and 2017 he was part of NZ's Champions Trophy squad. He also turned NZ down on a couple of occasions so as not to jeopardise his Warwickshire contracts. He was a bit more highly rated by his country than you may think. And rightly so.

We've struggled with T20 overseas players for so long. Shoaib Malik in 2014 was good for us but even he missed Finals Day for the CPL (I think?). Even Jeets, as incredible as he was, used to get caned in that format in his 2 or 3 seasons with us.

I think the only way you can guarantee player availability (fitness permitting obviously) is to engage a domestic player from SA, Aus or NZ who is largely unheralded and not really on the radar of national team selection. Even then Cricket Australia are so difficult to work with, look at Kent and the Xavier Bartlett situation, all agreed for all formats, then on the eve of the season CA pulled him out and only let him play the Blast. Nightmare.

On the overseas, it’s clear 2 things work for the championship.
Firstly, the most successful version is getting a proven domestic player (maybe a few international caps but isn’t close to a call up now). They can be there for an extended period, and won’t be called up internationally like Sussex did with Daniel Hughes, Surrey with Worrall, Worcs with Smith, most obviously Harmer for Essex. They play CC and T20, right until the end of the season basically. But usually have a break to have friends and family over and do tourist stuff during the ODC. That way by the time they’ve gotten used to conditions, they’re not flying home, they’re in form for months for you.
Or you get an ex international, who still has plenty to offer, like Surrey did with Sangakarra, Essex with Elgar, Sussex with Pujara, Shaw for Northants. These guys pass on so much to young players, you still hear Surrey players and coaches talk about the impact of Sangakarra.
Current prime internationals for CC are a big risk; we’ve seen it with Ali, but Lyon, Massood too this year. There’s always exceptions but those 2 options seem to be the best way to get a consistent contributing overseas.
In T20 it’s different, but if 1 of your CC overseas can play T20, you can pay more to get a higher class specialist. Which helps squad balance, because you don’t have to recruit so many domestic T20 mercenaries. And you can try and get the best available T20 overseas instead, who’ll probably have a bigger impact.
Also means you’re much more confident in the contributions of your overseas in all formats, so instead of needing to recruit 4 domestic players to cover your bases, you can recruit the best 2.

Any suggested names for 2025 overseas?

If available the tall South African left arm all rounder, Marco Jansen??

Seriously though, the club needs to follow the example of Worcestershire and do their research over the winter, it worked with Worcs getting Nathan Smith for most of the season and Jason Holder, who while not scoring many runs, was a tremendous positive influence while he was at the club.

What we should not be doing is limiting our recruitment to a single agent, or acting as a warm up camp for the BCCI or PCB.

Andy wrote:

Can't understand the overseas situation. Have we been massively unlucky? Maxwell was/is one of the worlds leading white ball cricketers, was so clearly the best available player to us at the time. Did we expect too much? Was he as bad as we remember? I'm not sure he was. Was fair to expect more though.

I dio
Re. Worrall. Hold on a sec, he played for Gloucestershire for 3 or 4 seasons so it's not like Surrey unearthed a gem out of nowhere. Only when he gained his British passport did Surrey pinch him. Good player though, clearly.

Jeets what a player, clearly. Crucially NZ schedule was quite light for a such a long period. We did lose him to international duty on a couple of occasions, 2012 he was gone for about 6 or 7 weeks as NZ toured India and 2017 he was part of NZ's Champions Trophy squad. He also turned NZ down on a couple of occasions so as not to jeopardise his Warwickshire contracts. He was a bit more highly rated by his country than you may think. And rightly so.

We've struggled with T20 overseas players for so long. Shoaib Malik in 2014 was good for us but even he missed Finals Day for the CPL (I think?). Even Jeets, as incredible as he was, used to get caned in that format in his 2 or 3 seasons with us.

I think the only way you can guarantee player availability (fitness permitting obviously) is to engage a domestic player from SA, Aus or NZ who is largely unheralded and not really on the radar of national team selection. Even then Cricket Australia are so difficult to work with, look at Kent and the Xavier Bartlett situation, all agreed for all formats, then on the eve of the season CA pulled him out and only let him play the Blast. Nightmare.

I didn't realise that Worral played for Gloucestershire but either way, Surrey still went for him despite him not being proven so the same example applies. Maxwell, if you consider his reputation, it is as a hard hitting and fast scoring batman who can bowl decent off-spin, well his off-spin was no better than decent and his batting was not a success from what we were probably expecting, 'The Big Show', he was not. I do not recall many games where Jeetan got caned and he did play a lot more than his "2 or 3 seasons". As for his fellow-countrymen, well if he was so highly rated, they would have played him a lot more than they did, not one performance did he get in the last Champions Trophy tournament that was played in the UK.

Ali was supposed to be the all format overseas that stays the whole year. His international career looked to be over but with the mysterious ways in which Pakistan cricket works he got called up again and then got a bad injury. Considering that he's continuing his rehab in England I wouldn't be surprised to see him back next season.

Booth has a contract until 2026 and doesn't count as a domestic player for at least another season, maybe two. He might develop into a good player but I think an overseas top order bat or spinning all rounder is a priority.

Regarding the T20 there should be a lot more players available next season because it doesn't clash with the world cup like it did this year.

paulbear wrote:

Andy wrote:

Can't understand the overseas situation. Have we been massively unlucky? Maxwell was/is one of the worlds leading white ball cricketers, was so clearly the best available player to us at the time. Did we expect too much? Was he as bad as we remember? I'm not sure he was. Was fair to expect more though.

I dio
Re. Worrall. Hold on a sec, he played for Gloucestershire for 3 or 4 seasons so it's not like Surrey unearthed a gem out of nowhere. Only when he gained his British passport did Surrey pinch him. Good player though, clearly.

Jeets what a player, clearly. Crucially NZ schedule was quite light for a such a long period. We did lose him to international duty on a couple of occasions, 2012 he was gone for about 6 or 7 weeks as NZ toured India and 2017 he was part of NZ's Champions Trophy squad. He also turned NZ down on a couple of occasions so as not to jeopardise his Warwickshire contracts. He was a bit more highly rated by his country than you may think. And rightly so.

We've struggled with T20 overseas players for so long. Shoaib Malik in 2014 was good for us but even he missed Finals Day for the CPL (I think?). Even Jeets, as incredible as he was, used to get caned in that format in his 2 or 3 seasons with us.

I think the only way you can guarantee player availability (fitness permitting obviously) is to engage a domestic player from SA, Aus or NZ who is largely unheralded and not really on the radar of national team selection. Even then Cricket Australia are so difficult to work with, look at Kent and the Xavier Bartlett situation, all agreed for all formats, then on the eve of the season CA pulled him out and only let him play the Blast. Nightmare.

I didn't realise that Worral played for Gloucestershire but either way, Surrey still went for him despite him not being proven so the same example applies. Maxwell, if you consider his reputation, it is as a hard hitting and fast scoring batman who can bowl decent off-spin, well his off-spin was no better than decent and his batting was not a success from what we were probably expecting, 'The Big Show', he was not. I do not recall many games where Jeetan got caned and he did play a lot more than his "2 or 3 seasons". As for his fellow-countrymen, well if he was so highly rated, they would have played him a lot more than they did, not one performance did he get in the last Champions Trophy tournament that was played in the UK.

*meant his last 2 or 3 seasons with us in the Blast when he was going at 8 or 9 or 10 an over lost games. There was no bigger fan of Jeets than me I'm just highlighting how difficult it is for players to perform well across all formats. He turned down NZ many times to play for us, good luck finding that loyalty again.

GerryShedd wrote:

Any suggested names for 2025 overseas?

Neil Wagner, he was essentially pushed out the door the same way Anderson was. He would still be able to offer a lot.

If you wanted to go younger, Jordan Buckingham is a good young fast bowler in all formats from South Australia. Done very well at state level, big bash and Australia A.

Todd Murphy another from Aus, he isn’t in the Australian plans any time soon, especially whilst Lyon is around. But he bowled superbly in India as the second spinner. Plays all formats too.

I mentioned Marco Janssen in a game feed earlier in the season, he would tick a number if boxes. I'm not sure it's the priority right now though, or not the sole priority. Also heard a rumour that Ben Compton was linked with the Rhodes replacement, that would just leave a spinner. Not sure how far away/if at all Taz Ali is but it might be the plan.

To the overall question about the season, it all hinged on that Gloucs T20 quarter. That changed everything and new players aren't really going to fix that collective mindset. I suppose it all depends on this review and that might change things fundamentally, but with some new players starting to bed in I'm hopeful this season is the worst one before a recovery...

It is accepted in American sports leagues that the play off stages of a competiton rquire a different mentality and approach to the game. In both T20 and 50 over competitions we have tended to get a lot of wins in the early group games, but fade going into the knock out stages. Peaking too early tends not to bring overall success in the end.

Taz Ali is potentially very good, but he is still a long way away from been a regular in the first class game. He still needs to improve in all aspects of his game.

I wonder if Quinton De Kock could be tempted to play a season of county cricket, he would significantly improve the top of the order, and is a woprld class keeper, so would strengthen the team there in T20 games too.

Any good South African player would be a step up and if you consider how many of them dropped out of their New Zealand tour recently to play T20 cricket, they are not exactly prioritising their Test careers.

If we’re talking about a mindset to win, do we really want South Africans? In cricket, they’re the biggest example of systemic choking in the big moments.

Also, we know typically their top players are very financially motivated, I’m not sure we could compete with the money being offered by the IPL, The Hundred, or even Major League Cricket for that matter. Especially as the time the blast is played is the perfect time for them to rest before and after those tournaments, plus they’ll make more money from the SA T20, BBL, PSL and the UAE tournament.

At least South African teams & players get to the big moments.
Do we really want more players that either come here and don't try, that sign a long term contract then go home after a single game, or who arrive with a pre existing injury that they have not disclosed?

But they don’t win those moments, which is our issue.
They’re the international version of Warwickshire in T20. Great stats. No trophies to show for it.

Here's my review of the season:
https://deepextracover.com/2024/10/warwickshire-season-review-2024/
As usual, kind and constructive comments welcomed and the other sort tolerated because I believe in free speech!

From The Guardian:
"The Manchester United award for underachievement:
To Lancashire, though it was a close-run thing between three big-name Test counties. Warwickshire, where Mark Robinson seems likely to move on, Nottinghamshire, who finally found their feet as autumn drew near, and relegated Lancashire. But the soggy handshake must go to (the other) Old Trafford where a combination of usually reliable senior pros falling on hard times, overseas imports failing to function, Nathan Lyon being pulled home early by Cricket Australia and a side stuffed with talented but callow youths were relegated. Lancashire lost four games by an innings and gained only 15 batting points. The three points they earned during the draw with Worcestershire in the final game of the season were immediately lost due to a slow over rate. Time to hunker down and try again next year."

See the bit in bold.

We can but hope!

GerryShedd wrote:

Here's my review of the season:
https://deepextracover.com/2024/10/warwickshire-season-review-2024/
As usual, kind and constructive comments welcomed and the other sort tolerated because I believe in free speech!

Thanks. Very well articulated!