Final averages here:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/tournament/averages-batting-bowling-by-team/county-championship-division-one-2024-15937?team=1479

On the manner of dismissals/batters approach. It’s interesting to note that Yates has the highest strike rate of any of the recognised batters in the averages above.
That and his up and down form, doesn’t scream of a player you’d consider a natural opener. Normally I’d wonder if a move to 4 might suit him well similar to Root early in his career, but we saw how Yates form was effected when he moved to 3 a couple of years ago.
He has so much potential, just need a top level batting coach to work with him.

BristolBear wrote:

On the manner of dismissals/batters approach. It’s interesting to note that Yates has the highest strike rate of any of the recognised batters in the averages above.
That and his up and down form, doesn’t scream of a player you’d consider a natural opener. Normally I’d wonder if a move to 4 might suit him well similar to Root early in his career, but we saw how Yates form was effected when he moved to 3 a couple of years ago.

He has so much potential, just need a top level batting coach to work with him.

That's the key bit! Frost HAS to go, I can't believe he's survived this long. Another one with something on Robinson?!

Do many players actually improve much once they are 25? In most cases somoene who has played regular first team cricket since they were 18 would probably have reached a plateau by that age. Obviously there are always rare exceptions.

Many of the dismissals this season, all through the team have been caused by bad decisions by the player concerned, that is the responsibility of the player, not the batting coach. Or are we absolving the players of all responsibility for their actions?

I think in terms of physical ability. Your timing, your reactions, pace for bowlers, eyesight etc that probably isn’t going to improve.

But your approach to the game, your technique, mental strength, mastering new shots/skills, the mental attitude you have, that can always be improved. Seen plenty of players make technical improvements throughout long careers.
Even things like being in the gym and getting that bit stronger and fitter.

Review of this round of matches here:
https://deepextracover.com/2024/09/week-15-vitality-county-championship-review/

25 year old OHD was absolutely gash. It wasn't til he turned 28 or 29 that he started to resemble anything like a proper bowler. 25 is young, particularly for a batter.

Interestingly Dean Headley was talking about this the other week and lamenting the fact that so many young cricketers are written off too quickly, particularly batters, and regarding bowlers a seamers body might not be fully strong and developed til they turn 26 or 27. But so many coaches, and supporters, make their minds up on cricketers too quickly.

The only batter of ours who I think has had a poor season is Mousley, feel like he's gone backwards in red ball. But he's young and should be given time to improve.

Ultimately players improve at different rates.

Re. Batting coach, the recently appointed Warwickshire women's coach Ali Maidan was batting coach at Yorkshire, wonder if he can help our men's team out? Yorkshire have had some decent homegrown batters recently Wharton, Hill, Bean etc some lad called Brook has made a few runs too.

Highveld wrote:

Do many players actually improve much once they are 25? In most cases somoene who has played regular first team cricket since they were 18 would probably have reached a plateau by that age. Obviously there are always rare exceptions.

Many of the dismissals this season, all through the team have been caused by bad decisions by the player concerned, that is the responsibility of the player, not the batting coach. Or are we absolving the players of all responsibility for their actions?

I don't think a single player has improved their game at Warwickshire since Gilo and Welch were here. Some have gone backwards. The current set of coaches are failing year after year.

Robinson was bordering on smugness in his post match interview, saying we could enjoy it and relax once in the knowledge that we were safe. I really don't think he should take any pleasure out of a desperately poor season which was ultimately saved by our local rivals beating another team.
He made some more delusional comments about improving in white ball cricket plus the usual excuses ranging from the weather, the pitches, injuries and the overseas player situation.
I sincerely hope that is the last one we have to listen to. Alarmingly, he spoke with some confidence about the end of season review. He needs to pack his bags along with the other coaches.

Ironically, avoiding relegation so often is perhaps not the best thing for counties developing young players.
Think of how Ian Bell's game was honed in the very early days of 2 division cricket. Now Sussex and this Yorkshire team coming up ought to be quite a handful now I think

KingofSpain wrote:

Highveld wrote:

Do many players actually improve much once they are 25? In most cases somoene who has played regular first team cricket since they were 18 would probably have reached a plateau by that age. Obviously there are always rare exceptions.

Many of the dismissals this season, all through the team have been caused by bad decisions by the player concerned, that is the responsibility of the player, not the batting coach. Or are we absolving the players of all responsibility for their actions?

I don't think a single player has improved their game at Warwickshire since Gilo and Welch were here. Some have gone backwards. The current set of coaches are failing year after year.

Only OHD and Hain are still here from when Gilo was still here. Have they both gone backwards? This doesn't make sense.

mad wrote:

Ironically, avoiding relegation so often is perhaps not the best thing for counties developing young players.
Think of how Ian Bell's game was honed in the very early days of 2 division cricket. Now Sussex and this Yorkshire team coming up ought to be quite a handful now I think

Yep, fair shout. To have observed Sussex in Div 2 from afar has been fascinating, they got relegated and for years tried to almost buy their way back into the top flight, 3 or 4 seasons of bad recruitment, before abandoning that method suddenly around 2021 and really backing their youth, putting out teams made up almost entirely of u23's at one point. Looked pretty dramatic as they struggled badly for a couple of years, they stuck at it though and look at them now. Farbrace seems to have had a bit more luck with overseas recruitment down there than he did with us too, curiously. Wonder if (when!) we were to get relegated supporters would accept 2 or 3 years of struggle in Div 2 if we backed our own but then came up looking strong with a squad in good shape...

Yorkshire are always going to be there or thereabouts generally because they have a very strong pipeline of talent at pathway and academy level coming through to bolster their first XI. Look at the batters they have, almost a conveyor belt and run scorers, in Jordan Thompson they have brilliant all rounder too who can bat well at 8 and bowls decent pace in the mid 80's. Never has a bad game.

Div 1 could be strong next season, two decent sides have come up, Durham look as though they'll be a good side too, interesting times.

BristolBear wrote:

On the opening stands.
I’ve just gone back through the scores:

0,1,6,5,26,62,5,52,106,19,29,48,15,38,3,21,18, 59,10,56,116,343,37.

That’s an average of just over 46.
Take out the ridiculous situation of the 343 stand with the kookaburra in those silly early season games, that average goes to 33.
2 (+1) hundred stands, 4 fifty stands, 6 single figure stands. 3 of those big stands are with those kookaburra early season matches. With a dukes the average is far lower.
The issue in my mind is the lack of consistency, both players run very hot and cold, having looked through the numbers too often they’re out very close together so those scores are often as much for 2 as they are for 1. So it’s always worse than just 1 wicket, and we’re often left with 2 brand new batsman facing a relatively new ball and fresh bowlers.

I get the point about consistency, but the fact is that our stats still compare very favourably with all the other first division counties (with the exception of Surrey). Here's a breakdown of a few more stats:

100 partnerships:

3 - Warwickshire, Nottinghamshire
2 - Surrey
1 - Kent, Durham, Essex, Somerset
0 - Lancashire, Worcestershire, Hampshire

50 partnerships:

6 - Surrey
4 - Warwickshire, Kent, Durham, Essex
3 - Nottinghamshire, Worcestershire
2 - Lancashire, Somerset
1 - Hampshire

Single figure partnerships:

4 - Surrey
5 - Essex, Nottinghamshire
6 - Warwickshire
8 - Worcestershire, Durham
10 - Hampshire
11 - Kent, Lancashire
15 - Somerset

The lack of century opening partnerships across the division was really surprisingly low for me. Perhaps what we're seeing here is that opening the batting is quite difficult, especially when the season is played largely in April, May and September? I also didn't realise that Hampshire's opening partnership was so bad!

Hampshire have had a less than stellar season. Nowhere in the two white ball comps but several of their batsmen have made big scores plus the ability to take twenty wickets have clumped them to second in the table. Warwicks have had several seasons themselves like that since it went to two divisions occasionally over reliant on lower order runs. Our stats look okay but there is a brittleness there hence some real shockers of late

We batted alright this year, keep in mind we didn't have Hain for large periods too. Yes we've had moments where we've been run through, all counties have had that though, its the nature of the game. If you compare to 2023 stats, we improved batting wise putting together more partnerships and scores. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been following us closely enough or simply has an agenda.

The issue for us is our bowling.

I know that it's winning tournaments that counts but in terms of matches won across the three competitions, I reckon that Somerset with 23 wins come out top, Surrey come second with 20 and Warwickshire third with 17.
I've only looked at the top division teams on the basis that second division wins don't have the same value.
And as that keen cricketer Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies and statistics, which we've all gone out of our way to prove over the last few days.

On the second division being good to develop young players, I do believe that’s true to an extent. The issue is, especially for sides like Sussex & Worcestershire, can they keep them when big sides come calling. Sussex’s problem is that they can’t, Salt, Orr, Burgess, Brown to name a few recent ones, a lot of players they’ve developed and turned into top talent go to clubs with more money. I know for a fact Salt was told if he had England aspirations that under the previous regime there was a preference for players who are content for trophies and get into crunch moments.
As for the opening partnership, as I said before the issue isn’t just that first wicket, other clubs have had the likes of Vince, Lawrence, Pope, Abell, Elgar, Sibley, Burns, Bedingham and more either at the other end or coming in preventing multiple wickets falling.
We’re a bit more fragile in that top order and often if we lose 1 we lose 3 or 4. As Hain hasn’t been about or at the same level this year, Yates and Davies are aggressive and don’t really play that role, Mousley & Bethell aren’t there yet in red ball, Rhodes can’t be a hero every time, so we can lose 3 or 4 quickly sometimes and it’s not until Barnard and Burgess you have faith that we can battle. By that stage bowlers have their tails up, still with a newish ball.
That being said, the bowling is the bigger issue, and does feed into the batting problem because often we’re on top and then we can’t finish sides off, the momentum swings, we’re out in the field far longer than we should be, and that does effect the way other teams come out against us and how we bat.
I know I sound like a broken record but it does come down to balance, of the side, the squad and the formats.

I fear we could have problems in all areas next year. The batting should have been ok but we're losing Rhodes and, if England maintain their interest, could see less of Bethell & Mousley. That leaves rather more holes for Sheikh and Wylie to fill than we might have expected. We also have to hope that whatever was troubling Sam Hain doesn't recur.
Our luck with seam bowlers needs to change. Will Hasan Ali come back? Will he be fit and available? Has Rushworth got another season in him? It's hard to see Ethan Bamber as the Messiah but a pool of OHD, Bamber, Rushworth and Ali could be decent.
What worries me most is the absence of a wicket taking spinner. It is no credit to our bowling stocks that Rob Yates was our third highest wicket taker in the CC. Perhaps the short term answer is to put some coaching effort into upskilling him. The chances of finding a Lyon or a Harmer on the Overseas market aren't great.
I can't see us challenging for the top half of the CC next year.

It would be very risky to assume that sheikh, Wylie and Kai Smith all develop into solid first team players to contribute all through next season.
Likewise relying on Rushworth and Hassan Ali would seem to be wasted investment of budget, based on their lack of a contribution, and consistant failure to be available this season.
If Michael Rae was available as a UK qualified player, he would be a good signing, otherwise the club needs to do extensive research to find bowlers who are available for the full season and have a fitness record that shows they are capable of playing every game.
We can not afford another season where funds are wasted on non-playing overseas players.

Hi All,

My first post to the group.
I'm not sure if it's common knowledge with many of the Bears fans, but Sam Hains father passed away at the start of the season, so he was given compassionate leave to return to Australia for an extended period.
He has had a difficult season as we've all seen, but a very decent knock at Trent Bridge hopefully augurs well for next year.